The Nature of our Heathen Gods: What are they? (updated 20/04/2020)

Many years ago, when I had been calling myself heathen for only a very short time, I hungrily scoured the internet for information and insights that might help me understand more about heathenry.

In the process of this, I signed up to a number of forums and mailing lists, for that was how the internet was back then. This helped me interact with fellow heathens (albeit virtually), which helped me explore the faith of which I had chosen to be part.

One of the first questions that new heathens often ask themselves - or that they have asked of them, is: "What form do you believe the gods take?" (or similar).

My answers back then were as confused as you might expect for someone new to the faith. These posts from the old Kindred UK forum (now sadly defunct), illustrate that perfectly.

(Linked for those that might still have access)

How do you see the gods thread - post one

Well, as I said, I am still new to the faith. I have not yet been blessed with a 'meeting' of any sort with a divine entity. Or, at least, I have not recognised one as such.

I am not saying the gods and goddesses aren't real entities. I am saying, having not been exposed to them that long, I can't honestly think of them in that way. Just in the way I think of Trevor McDonald as 'that newsreader guy on the tv' or David Bowie as 'that musical artist'. They are real people. But, having never met them, I have no means of thinking of them in that way.

And, yes, I think I am an aspect of humanity, in the same way I am an aspect of masculinity, an aspect of life, an aspect of anything and everything that goes into making me what I am. That is a whole other quest, discerning precisely what I am. I hope the gods and goddesses (whatever form they take) can help me with that, too.

So, essentially, at my current stage of 'spiritual development', I can't really think of the Aesir and Vanir as individual entities. At least not and be able to easily learn and grow from the knowledge of them. I think of them as I described and it helps me get an easier handle on them and my relation to them.

Okay, I accept that is pretty weird, and probably the opposite way that our ancestors would have learned about them. They would have learned about them as 'people' first. But they also would have learned about them from birth. Without years of christianity and rationalism polluting their opinions in the first instance, to boot.

Maybe the gods and goddesses are bodiless, and the fact they appear to some in a human guise is simply the easiest way for our minds to comprehend a divine being/presence/concept? Or maybe they are humanoid, simply with godly powers. Maybe they only exist as energy. As of yet, I do not know. But I don't want to assume anything about them this early on my spiritual path, simply because others claim to have seen them in the form of an individual.

Essentially, I am playing safe and keeping my mind open. Well, that is the way I look at it.

My views are just that - mine. Based only on what I have experienced thus far. Others have been a lot longer on the path than I. But I've got the rest of my life (40 years or so, if I am lucky) to find my own path. I'm just enjoying the scenery for now.

How do you see the gods thread - post two

I have to say I fall heavily on the side of their being anthropomorphic representations of the forces of nature/the cosmos or abstract concepts promoted in a form that people can more readily understand. Explaining renewal/order/'justice'/culture to people even today is pretty hard. Explain that there are gods and goddesses who personify these roles and people can relate to them. Especially with the teutonic gods who are peculiarly more 'human' than many others.

But, more than this, I see there is a counterpoint to this in that the gods can also represent similar aspects of our own psyches. Thor might represent my protective instinct, my pragmatic side and also my no-nonsense approach to problem solving. Freyja might represent the my sexual side. Loki my mischevious side. The stories in the eddas and other sources can be seen as a guide to how these various aspects of ourselves interact and/or how they should be viewed/nurtured.

But, then on another level entirely, I think by following the gods, honouring them in our day to day lives, we breathe a life/more life into them. To all intents and purposes they become independent beings. All we ever know of each-other (as humans) is what our eyes see, our ears hear and, essentially, what our brains process about that person. It is the same when we bring the gods and goddesses into our lives. We see them active in the world and they have an effect on and through us.

Whether what I have reasoned means they are or are not actual, real entities, I am not yet sure. I have only just come to heathenism, but I hope through studying diligently on the evidence of how our faith was practiced traditionally, by reasoning how that should be interpreted in a modern context, and maybe with the odd moment of spiritual enlightenment, I might find out one day.

Also, please note, my knowledge of the gods and goddesses is very primitive at the moment. Forgive me if I have made any inappropriate connections or somesuch 'newbie mistake'

To be quite frank, my beliefs are no more certain now than they were all those years ago. I have had experiences and episodes of enlightenment which have shaped the way I feel about the aesir and vanir. But the only lesson of value that I have learnt is that it really doesn't matter how you see the gods and goddesses of our faith. More important is to be "a good heathen" - however that is expressed for you. Keeping your word, being resilient and self-sufficient or blotting often and offering sacrfices whenever you can.

Hours spent debating what form the gods take is just time wasted. Instead we should try to learn their lessons and accept the wisdom they are offering us - if only we will take it, and them to heart.

"From Atheist to Heathen in three very shaky steps..."

First posted onto my other blog (http://5threplicant.livejournal.com) in 2009.

So, as promised, a post about my turn to the dark side (or spiritual shift toward paganism, if you prefer). Sorry for the belated nature of this post, but this is stuff that I am still not entirely sure about. Cardinal sin as it seems to be with some pagans, I am still very much the cynic and hold dear some very humanist opinions.

Until a relatively short (in the scheme of things) while ago, I was a very strong atheist and cynic. Never quite managing full on physicalist/materialist (I could never quite agree that 'the physical' was *all* there was), I nevertheless scoffed at those who believed in/had faith in (( insert your deity here )) and was rarely comfortable hanging with the more flighty faeriegoths or fluffy pagans. You know the kind. Those people for whom the world is all spirits and energies and whose idea of spirituality is based way too heavily on the re-runs of Buffy they've watched.

For me, existentialism had been as close as I got toward any kind of personal philosophy. If divinity did exist, then it was within us, rather than external. The most 'fluffy' I ever got was reading about Jung's concept of the collective unconscious. I was hardly going to be embracing David Icke any time soon, trust me.

Then a few things happened which looks to be changing all that. Firstly, in a discussion with one of my more 'fluffy' but still very intelligence mates, she made a point which caused a door in my mind to swing just slightly ajar for a moment. Nothing major, no epiphanies, revelations, unravelling of my mind or trumpets sounding or anything. Maybe a BBC Sound Effects department-style creak to announce said opening. More comedic than inspiring, really.

Secondly, another of my friends who I had a deal of respect for announced his becoming a heathen (or I think the term he used was Odinist - there are lot of words for essentially the same thing, each carrying with it a certain amount of baggage and no-one seems quite sure what the collective should really be called anyway). This, again, was no inspiring moment, but did perhaps plant a little seed. It made me aware, not just that heathenry existed (I knew that already) but gave me a little knowledge of what it's modern manifestation is about.

Finally, while I was living in Sweden I had perhaps the closest thing I have ever had to an epiphany or a spiritual experience. While out and about (which was often the case back then as even city areas in Sweden are usually surrounded by the most gloriously beautiful nature) I had a strong feeling of divinity. This time external to me and all around me. Somehow connected both to myself and the land. Call it just simply being awestruck at the beauty of nature, if you like. That was certainly a part of it. As was a sense of history and of the generations of my ancestors (who more than likely hailed from somewhere in Scandinavia) stretching back into the dimness of time, feeling the same things as me and all being connected.

Again, not as cataclysmic an event as I am, perhaps, painting with these words now. Very actual were these feelings, but very understated. And, over the following months, I got more and more of a sense of a change in perspective and my 'spiritual alignment' (for want of a less fluffy word). Additionally, around this time, I began to experience 'waking dreams'. First of all dreaming a giant spider in my bed - a hallucination which remained for a few seconds after I awoke. Something that shit me up and no mistake, I can tell you! Other such hallucinations have occured since, and all around waking/going to sleep. Perhaps a sign of my imagination gaining influence over me once more. Or perhaps simply a reflection of the fact I'd been thinking about symbols and spiritual beings much more than previously and so my mind (being what it is) took license to go apeshit for a bit.

So now, I find myself reconciling the two sides of myself. The cynic and the dreamer. Always the two major sides to my character, the shift now seems to be that I am listening more to the dreamer where my beliefs are concerned. Still, though, I am reticent to lose that cynical part of me. I still feel uncomfortable with fluffy pagans and prefer the company of other 'cynics with their doors ajar' such as myself. Having people tell me I am not really a pagan cos I don't believe in actual divine entities just makes me more and more cynical, to be honest. Theatening regression if truth be told. But I feel my version of heathenry allows me to incorporate its values and lessons into my life without having to insist that the gods are actual people watching us like bloody gormless reality tv fans. You'd think gods'd have better things to do than watch us make tits of ourselves!?

Quote

" Science proves there never was a mermaid, blue-skinned Krishna or a virgin birth in physical reality. Yet thought is real, and the domain of thought is the one place where gods inarguably exist, wielding tremendous power. If Aphrodite were a myth and Love only a concept, then would that negate the crimes and kindnesses and songs done in Love's name? If Christ were only ever fiction, a divine Idea, would this invalidate the social change inspired by that idea, make holy wars less terrible, or human betterment less real, less sacred?"

~Alan Moore.

Living Gods

I came across this post while reading back in my livejournal (http://5threplicant.livejournal.com) and thought it would be good to post here.


Here is something I posted to the Kith of Yggdrasil's member's forum about the nature of storytelling, mythology and the divine.

A theory I am developing to this day and which makes for great pub-pint conversation with anyone sharing a similar paganesque interest.



Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:35 pm Post subject: Living gods

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I think one thing that is often a neglected part of our faith is one key difference between modern heathenry and its original form.

In times gone past, the stories of our faith were living things, evolving and growing with each progressive telling. Breeding, if you will, as new stories were created to join the old. Dying as less popular or lesser known stories were forgotten and blew away in the smoke of the campfire. When skalds told new tales of the gods and heroes, if those tales didn't sit right or were somehow wrong, then they simply would not be enjoyed and not remembered and retold. Good stories that added something to the fame of the god or hero or that simply entertained would be appreciated, remembered and retold.

These, however, were not the static, codified stories written in books like those we pore over today. They had no one true version so that each word of the story could be pored over, examined and argued over. They were tales told around the campfire. They'd be embellished and exaggerated with each telling. Altered at the whim of the storyteller or at the behest of his audience. Truly a living tale and, with the potential for other tales to be created in the future, they were tales that imbued the protagonist with life. What would Thor do upon the next telling? Or the next?

When I read the Eddas, they can feel like an obituary. A recounting of the deeds of someone from the past. Great and glorious deeds, for certain. Deeds providing us with something to aspire to and lessons to be learnt, but deeds which are a fait accompli. Over. Something that was done in a world of the past, involving the people and events of the past and something I need to reassess for application in my own, contemporary world.

This is why I am beginning to feel that we have lost something very important by relying on the same, almost canonical stories from our mythology. A great mythology it is with much to benefit those who study it. But it is not as vibrant as it was when it came in the form of an oral tradition.

However the stories came about, whether the work of one or more skalds with an incredible imagination, the codified knowledge of a venerable gothi, the chronicles of ancient kings, gods, or whatever - that all seems to be of secondary importance to me. I enjoy the great mysteries as much as anyone. Philosophy and theology provide manna for my intellect that I would hate to have to do without. But I feel the stories themselves are so much more to so many more people. Accessible and of value to all, they encapsulate all that is good about heathenry and tell a damn good tale to boot.

I feel the stories need to be told again. Need to breathe and evolve. To escape from their current bondage within the written word and roam free as evolving, breeding entities.

Now, one problem, I foresee is that any skald brave enough to create his own Lay would doubtless come under an immense amount of flak from those for whom his portrayal of the gods and heroes in question didn't ring true. That is the way of contemporary heathenry, it seems - 'what I don't like shouldn't be...'. I can't imagine this happened all those moons ago. As I stated earlier, I feel that those stories that were less popular would simply fade away through natural selection.

This would also help to reinterpret heathenry in a modern context by creating stories of the gods and heroes at large in the modern world. It also might help heathenry reach a wider audience, too.

Obviously, I am biased, fancying myself as something of a Skald, but what I'd like to know is what kinds of stories about the gods and heroes would people want to hear around the campfire?
_________________
D.

Pondering Tyr

I decided some time ago to crosspost (read: steal) this from my post on the Kith of Yggdrasil members' forum and post it onto my blog at UKPagan. Now, in turn, I repost it again here, hoping to bring it to a wider audience.  I've been pondering Tyr ever since I wrote this and gradually feel myself being drawn toward him (mentally, spiritually, theologically - however your worldview prefers to describe it).

Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:04 pm Post subject: Tyr I've allowed Tyr to occupy my mind somewhat, perhaps in an effort to get to grips with him and any way that he might help in my Baguazhang training.

I've read the usual factoids regarding him, available from several sources. Perhaps once the chief deity until he was usurped by Odin in some areas. Sky god. Patron of combat. Lost his hand while binding Loki's troublesome canine offspring... yada... yada... yada...

At first I found him completely inscrutible. Very little information available regarding him and there seem to be very few authors willing to pontificate too much as to his nature, either.

Then I started to really think about what we know of him. He lost his hand when binding the wolf. Offered as a pledge of faith. Tyr must have known that the hand would be lost once the binding was complete. To look that giant, ravenous animal in the eye and to offer your hand without a solitary quiver of doubt crossing your face...? Any sign of unease would surely have warned Fenrir of the gods' true intent. To keep that calm under such immense pressure in spite of what pain and loss was to come. Now that calls for ice in your veins.

Similarly, Tyr is described as the only god brave enough to feed the bound Fenrir. When you consider the nature of the other gods, that is quite a claim to fame. Perhaps the statement is not meant to be literally true - Odin and Thor, for example, do not strike me as cowards - but to be hailed as the bravest of the gods is an incredible accolade.

The feeding of Fenrir also raises another interesting point. This wolf has just bitten your hand off, what kind of fairness of judgment must you show not to bear a grudge and to feed the animal? Hel, why not just let Fenrir starve, chained up helpless as he is? Obviously, Tyr's honour precludes him from such base flaws.

Indeed, Tyr's honour would have to be renowned for his hand to make sufficient a pledge for the wolf to allow himself to be bound. Let's face it, Odin or Thor would be likely to eschew honour in order to get the job done. Only Tyr, it seems, had enough honour, bravery, determination, pragmatism and foresight to offer his hand for the greater good and to secure the future - allowing the gods a chance to secure a better post-Ragnarok world...

What will I attempt to learn from him, then? It seems he has a lot of value to teach me, even from the superficial insights I have drawn for myself so far. I am looking forward to getting to know him even better, so that I can learn some of those traits of which, I must confess, I could use more.

Obviously, at the time I didn't feel the need to reference any of my claims within the little passage - but it is through plain, simple consideration and musing like this that I have come to feel myself closer to Tyr than before. No mystical mumbo-jumbo required. No chanting bollock-naked in my garden (good job, too, I only have a small balcony that is overlooked by the apartment block across the street). Nothing but a little time and thought.

Wonder if I could get closer to other aesir and asynior in this way? Might be worth thinking about...